Left Fist. Meet Right Fist. Now make a fist of things.

A wee while ago there was a tad of a spat over road pricing, which resulted in a high profile petition. Looks like there may be again - 'Big Brother' plan for police to use new road cameras

I blogged a fair bit on it (and you can, if you are so disposed, locate it by popping said phrase in the blogger search).

I was... am in favour of it, so long as a load of factors were established and guaranteed for fair and competent delivery first. Which they were not. So I joined the petition.

Now in all that debate I do recall an interview with one Doctor (as in the figures) Ladyman, who I think was challenged by a Sun columnist in whether or not 'we' were to be tracked as part of all this. The answer, for this was not perhaps a good thing to admit in a Big Brother overloaded government's term, was no. Or at least 'a looking at it' no. Few were convinced. I think I wondered how you effectively charged anyone for distance covered if you didn't track them. It was not so much the fact of the process, but the mess the fudge-up caused.

And so now we see yet another issue of trust laid bare for what it was... and is.

And they keep asking the people to cooperate with them.

Indy - Row over police use of cameras criticised - Though I don't quiet understand the headline. Are they saying having a row is to be/being criticised?

You couldn't make it up, again

With our beloved supermarkets - Supermarket chain stops petrol sales - still flogging petrol how many days after the silicon story broke with the great advice that 'it should be alright' in some stations, it is a confusing time to be a motorist.

And just when you thought those in power could not screw it up any more, well... enjoy...

'Pay as you drive' schemes are in disarray

Melee Media

Is motoring the new smoking?

'I very much doubt anyone will get this far, so I'll invest a few moments just to purge myself from the whole sorry state of debate, the media and government these days, having at last watched the spectacle of last night's show.

At least we didn't have the usual 'twofer', with two totally antagonistic pit bulls from extreme ends of the spectrum thrown in to simplistically represent both sides of the argument. This time we had a good half dozen. The smug government pol who has realised he can say or deny anything he likes (did he or did he not say what the Sun guy says he is on record as saying? I'm afraid the interviewer wasn't up to establishing that. Or the 2 or 3 ways you can track someone, and charge them for moving, from A to B without needing to know where they are. That just didn't make sense). The laddish 'media of the people person' who doesn't seem to care about the environment, but did at least try to drag the debate out of London... a bit. The posh lady who actually didn't do too bad a job of explaining why it pretty much sucks using public transport in every way possible, from cost to the state of the things. There was indeed no Tory, but after their rep's performance on Sky's news t'other night I can see why. Then a Lib Dem that was for but against. A shrill activist who has moved to live in London and now does not need a car, and cycles everywhere, doubtless with her kids in the pannier even when it's mid-winter. And some guy from the CBI who seemed to see money in the whole thing so that's OK. And all they did was bicker over each other. Melee media.

The only guy who seem quite calm and reasoned was the petition organiser.

What a zoo. What a farce. The only entity to gain was Newsnight's ratings, because almost none came out well, I certainly didn't learn anything much I didn't know, and I don't see this issue getting sorted or the planet getting better any time soon.

Oh, and if I hear one more politician tell me I don't know my own mind in the same breath as saying they want to persuade me on anything, I shall laugh myself silly.

The reservoir of trust is blown. Nothing that's said is believed. And if the notion the only solution is to push in such cases, all that happens is there is a greater push back.'

Telegraph - Pay as you drive is a dead end for Labour - Well done guys. You killed it better from within than any enemy could have done.

Telegraph - How road pricing could be used to hammer the 'gas guzzlers' - If you shout loud enough about listening, may people will shut up and do what you want

Daily Mirror - TOLL TAX: HAMMOND GRILLS THE PM - actually a few interesting snippets

Cross of Ross rides... er.. again (if not in a bus)

Who pays for free rides?

Can't win, can you?

If it's anything like this neck 'o the woods, free public travel would just
let 'em save up enough to get a G-reg 205 with more spent on the
sound system & exhaust than the brakes, to rush around leaving
floral decorations on county lamp-posts.

Meanwhile no one under or over a certain age is going to dare getting
on board public transport in the meantime

SOMETHING MUST BE DONE!

Here's the solution: road pricing. That'll sort it.

Or not.

1.6M can be wrong. Apparently

Minister resolute on road tolls

The government will win over critics of its road-toll scheme before plans go through parliament, Transport Minister Stephen Ladyman has insisted.

Not this government with this critic, matey.

BBC - Road charges may be in south only - There's nice. Seems fair... if you live in the North
Times - Make a start on road pricing or lose out on £1.4bn, councils told - If at first you don't get your way...

In-ter-esting, but stupid

Here's one I hadn't thought of. Let's see the spinmeisters tackle this one:

Labour's poll tax

Just saw my abbreviation label for Congestion Charge. Seems apt.

National road pricing? No way

I am glad to see at least one London-based commentator accepting that life may be a bit different outside the Islington-Westminster-Fleet St (ok, it should also include Canary Wharf and wherever the BBC and Ken live, but that's a hexagon too far) triangle.

Speaking of our fair capital, I was amused that one another of this sites fair pages it has been pointed out the the denizens of Kensington & Chelsea can now swan about in their Cayennes to work, or indeed all day long, at very fair rates. Bless.

Political play and road pricing

There is no doubt that the government is badly wrong-footed on this. Equally, all who are less than on their side smell blood and opportunity. Shame it seems to be for self-promotion at the expense of anything like a positive solution. Because one thing is for sure, even if we (well, 1.6M misguided fools so far, who are to be put straight soon by Don Tony) don't fancy the way this one was pitched, something to fairly manage transport UK-wide IS needed.

I believed I watched Mr. Penning on SKY news last night exchange waffle swipes 'n snipes with a Scots Lib Dem MP (Lab talking head a tad absent), but when challenged to offer an alternative managed 'it should be looked at'.

Criticise for sure, but if you can't manage a coherent policy by way of an answer mate, you won't get my vote.

Guardian - Con Charge - Good a place as any
Guardian - Congestion zone could fuel voter revolt against Livingstone
Times - Smooth start as London’s zone spreads westwards - Myabe it's all OK, yah.
Times - ‘I will now be driving my grandchildren about’ - So it's all about congestion then?

If I don't, you shouldn't either

Driving towards disaster

What is your point, please?

I think it may lie in the 'I don't [need to] drive' sentence, which is often followed by 'because I am able to still enjoy a comfortable and secure life whilst not doing so'. At least you did not issue this from the Islington-Westminster-Fleet Street triangle.

If this piece is targeted at the millions in their cars, emitting away, stuck in a jam WHO REALLY DON"T DO IT FOR FUN AND WOULD RATHER NOT, then this is a bit of a waste of space, as all it does is highlight the relative privilege of the chattering classes who enjoy an income (sadly, this effort is a freebie) unreliant on timely, affordable travel. Along with cycling MPs, journalists blogging on their snowy adventures and celebs doing without for a week, it really doesn't seem to equate with the calls on most folks' time, careers and domestic budgets.

And if you are having a swipe at Jeremy Clarkson, most of us may watch him, but don't live like him. And thanks to that, I doubt he cares very much what you think either.

I say this as a committed environmentalist at his home-working desk (for all that can be proved or believed here), but one who feels there are too many now making a living out of telling a lot more us how to exist, from cosy pedestals. And all it's doing is creating divisions.

Sort the alternatives first, before fines and fiddling, or many of us will simply starve. And if that happens we'll have to worry more about this generation than any future ones.

Guardian CiF - Don't be scared to confront people like me over car use - Blah, blah. Even I have lost interest. Much less take the time to read it or reply.

The politics of what happens next

Good question.

It seems that I am to be written to by the PM to explain why I was/am misguided.
I will therefore take the opportunity to ask him a few things, such as:
1) Was it the intention of the petition site to acquire data on people to let them know you know where they live, and/or then be used for seemingly exclusive, one-sided propaganda?
2) Where exactly will the money be going? Will it be going to enviro-improvements or will some need to go to funding more index-linked public servants, and beholden voter groups, plus existing and future pension problems in the name of green?
I write this as I watch him with Andrew Marr on the BBC, and on his performance there I would say he is going to have a tough sell, and will need to do a lot better with answers to the above.

The very idea

Chill out

Gosh, the very idea of anything like this happening here in the UK.

Imagine if the Prime Minister used names acquired by signing a petition to a) say we know where you live and b) claim an exclusive right to show you the error of your ways.

The very idea....

'Tricky thing, democracy.

I recall my university days, when the vast majority of students were in the medical, engineering and law faculties.

Yet the Student Union was run (very much against most of our wishes) by the arts guys, who had about two lectures a week, while the rest of us were wall to wall 9 to 5.

Seems there was a Quorum (or some posh word) necessary to vote things in and out, including officers, and they tended to hold these when we'd lose course units for not being at class.

In the end we rebelled when they executive voted ents funds for some terrorist group in Africa, and got them out.

So to those of us (sorry, me. I decry all those who speak for others by claiming a mandate there is no evidence for them having) with families and day jobs and not living in London, where the streets are paved with gold and the transport is free, lobbing up to a rally does (how are the bodies drummed up for these, by the way? No spammed e-mails, surely), waving a placard all day really has no more value than an e-petition at doing much more than saying 'stop listening, start hearing and DO something that is not governed by hype, spin and self-interest'.

At least, that's wot I fink. But it seems I am too ignorant to understand the issues, let alone have the right to have an opinion or comment on them.'

Observer - Drivers to be offered trial pay-if-you-like toll scheme -
Observer - Hard sell in snarled-up Britain -
Observer - The e-petition shows that my government is listening -

Listening...hmnn. Are you hearing? Are you understanding?

I just heard you on Andrew Marr's show.

I look forward to getting your email and the answer to my questions, but on this performance won't hold my breath.

Lovely. Joining Art on Global Cool soon, no doubt.

The people have spoken - so what?

A million motorists embarrass road price ministers

Embarrass a minister? How does one do that? They are gold-plated, index-linked, unfireably (actually in Mr. Blunkett's case that's no true, but he did turn it into a nice earner) immune from the consequences of their actions... or inactions.

"...he said that many of the claims made by those promoting the petition were “falsehoods”. He promised that there would be safeguards to protect motorists’ privacy and that the system would not be used to catch drivers speeding."

Speaking of falseho... errors of omission... this is followed by..

"Mr Alexander did not offer assurances that the scheme would not raise the overall tax burden on motorists."

With a slight silence on the main point, which is most motorists don't trust the money raised to go towards improving transport infrastructure.

Trust is wearing thin, guys, and no amount of smoke and mirrors will avoid that.

And as we are juggling numbers, a million is probably about the number of legal (we'll ignore all the untaxed, insured guys they can seem to catch) drivers who were entitled to vote, did so, and gave this government their 'mandate'.

Telegraph - Downing St to email road pricing protesters
BBC - More road-charging debate pledged - There is an interestingA/V snippet off this that is worth listening to. from the headline I thought it was going to be about methodology. I after all have about 20 email addresses, so I guess I could boost any petition without thorough checks by simply using these. That said, the old paper one was equally subject to problems of checking. You could argue that it used to be more difficult, but in an e-age, why should that prevent feelings being expressed and supported.

Actually, the main thrust by an 'expert' (actually a guy from an industry in danger of being put out of business by such people power) was that it was only becuase it was from a well-organised lobby. Was it? I thought it was a guy who started a ball rolling. It is also insulting to say there are more important issues people care about. For me it was not so much road pricing, but ill-considered, inequitable legalisation being pushed through by self-serving pols. And that I do care about very high on my list.

Telegraph - One million people can't be wrong

'...going on to suggest that the signers were misinformed.'

How? I have also seen that notion floated that the level of response is as a result of 'coordinated action'. A guy posts on a petition and the people respond. What would they prefer.. a public funded campaign to tell us what to think?

Such crass attempts at dismissing genuine people power shows how out of touch these guys are.

I do believe we will need some sort of controls to manage traffic and emissions, but not the ill-considered, unfair and self-serving ones these bright young advisers and their political dinosaur masters have tried to stuff through.

I signed because I would want to see where my money went in helping transport, not to fill a hole in their index-linked pension plans.

Telegraph - Capital paid heavy price for congestion charge
Telegraph - Road tolls could be Labour's poll tax
Independent - The road to nowhere: Government urged to stick with plans for road pricing

This is typical sloppy reporting. I was interested to see who was doing the urging and on what basis. There's also a list of pros and cons. One I note missing is that there is no clear information on where the money will go.