Brown goes 'green'...again

Brown's electric dream for Britain

Interesting that this vision (check the linked stories... and comments!) is shared in one of the premier news outlets in the UK. Not.

Anyway, this at first glance looks a win win, and hence welcome.

However, the elephant in the room, or the 500kg flat battery in the middle of nowhere, is the not so small enviROI issue of what produces the 'leccy for now and into the foreseeable future.

At least there is a suggestion that the UK exports most of these vehicles to countries where the power to the wheels does not come with a carbon consequence, but I'd be keen to find out more on this as it is currently 'vague'. And many in the MSM seem unchallenging on this.

I am sure things can happen in complement, but wouldn't it make more sense for emissions to have the power supply sorted first (which can surely have the knock-on of helping micro-generation networks?) or at least well in advance?

There is also the not so small matter of what no to low carbon is actually going to be developed to generate this 'leccy; a matter I fear not best decided by desperate pols (Mr. Brown's green commitment seems the only high-speed revolving system that could possibly be harnessed reliably) looking to score a short term point with the media and hence public, egged on by EU targets, subsidy-addicted lobbyists, etc.

Sean O'Grady: Only time can dispel the charges against electric car -

Telegraph - Electric cars to be mass introduced to the UK, says Gordon Brown

Telegraph - So Budget 2009 is going to be green

Guardian - Gordon Brown announces green budget plans - I hope the headline in the panel that gets to this is deliberate... 'Brown pushes electric cars'...genius subbing!

Guardian - Together on electric cars -

FT - Brown proposes electric car subsidy - Have they got this right? Or are they mixing the £2k scrappage proposal in with electrics?

Indy - Jeremy Warner: Is scrappage subsidy really such a great idea?

Gord is in the details...

Which I await with interest.

At least the rate of spin on green issues Dear Leader and his GOAT herd manage could be harnessed to run something productively, as opposed to this country into the ground.

So let me see if I have this correct...

To help the planet, and the UK car industry, when my wife totaled our Volvo, instead of buying another, perfectly good 02 LPG version with the £1650 insurance, I should have waited for a £2k bribe I will co-fund with my taxes to go get a new Beemer 735i on the road?

This helps how on any measure?

On my website there's a feature that deletes words with possible swear words in them. Hence my view is that this is another total load of sCRAPpage.

Telegraph - Germany increases car subsidy to €5bn - 'A new car, a new car! My planet for a new car!' Or.. 'Eine neue auto...'? Interesting to see Dear Leader's G20 anti-protectionism/climate triumph in full flow. Even if it's down the drain. 'Jacquie, what did you do with the plug?'

Telegraph - Gordon Brown should realise electric cars are a battery-powered nightmare

Telegraph - The madness of subsidising inefficient electric cars

Telegraph - Budget 2009: Gordon Brown's 'electric dream for Britain' is really just a dream

Guardian - Japan goes green with £100bn economic recovery

Guardian - Gordon Brown's electric car subsidy rejected by industry - a "pointless soundbite".

Telegraph - Gordon Brown shows how green he really is - the rate of spin of Dear Leader, his fellow GOATs, and their legions of press officers and a mostly compliant MSM could well be harnessed to provide all the 'leccy required to run the other side of Scotland not currently served by the 24/7, 365/365, 100% efficiency wind turbines rotating serenely in a harsh salt water environment miles away from easy maintenance.

And I am planning to use Heathrow's 3rd runway to board Oh Lord M's next flying pig.

Brownite is similar to Kryptonite.

Seemingly green on the outside (at least as told by some and accepted by many in the MSM, but not the general public), but actually deepest in the red within, it is in fact made from the shards of a previously destroyed civilisation, and when brought near anyone of competence or anything of promise, sucks the very life out of it, leaving a powerless husk.

Times - Budget row over £2,000 payout to scrap a car

And, now, the details...

Telegraph - Electric car buyers to be given £5,000 in incentives - Ok, I see your £2k, and raise you £3k more.. Why not just give 'em away? Now, who is paying? Bus passengers?

Guardian - Cars: Electric dreams, clunky reality

Guardian - Labour's £5,000 sweetener to launch electric car revolution - Ultra 'green' how, when?

Guardian - The flaws in the electric car scheme -

BBC - Plan to boost electric car sales

BBC - Hoon's electric vision: How green? - Some very interesting points being made here, so I will value tracking.

As to the original piece that has inspired them, I am wondering how many other senior Government individual's names are going to be lifted off press releases with 'electric' and 'green' in them for weeks to come.

So far I have logged the visions of Call Me Lord Peter Maserati, Green Gordon and now Mr. Hoon. Any others jumping on this caravan we should know about?

For now, with some small cars (sadly not so eco beyond their mpg) going for about the price of the brib...er.. subsidy we're meant to co-fund to get urban dwellers into the dealerships in their droves, how much are these things?

I am really starting to regret the £3.5k I forked out on a perfect, low mileage '02 LPG, thinking this fuel plus keeping a second-hander going for another decade was the green thing to do.

And considering the volumes of raw materials involved in new manufacture, even if... when the generation and distribution of the 'leccy is sorted beyond the known universe within the M25, I would still like to be reassured that the stocks exist to make the necessary numbers of batteries all these folk not using public transport will require.

I am sure the BBC will be on hand to provide objective, qualified advice on this, and other key aspects of a pretty major commitment being made on behalf of future generations.

Newsnight - Interesting Mandelson connection

EU Ref - Slipping over the edge

Telegraph Letters

Indy - Electric dream machines: Are they really the future of motoring?

Times - Beware green jobs, the new sub-prime

Times - Slow start for charge of the electric cars

Indy Letters - The greenest cars are the oldest cars - Who'dha thunkit?

Telegraph - Electric cars labelled 'overhype' at Shanghai Auto Show

Telegraph - Electric cars: the infrastructure must come first - Nah, I think we should blow a ton of dosh on stuff we don't have, that just sounds good and will dump on future generations to sort out the generating issues. Now, with this principle in mind, what else needs addressing today?

FT - Hopping mad about cash-for-clunkers -

WhatGreenCar - WhatGreenCar calculates impact of car scrappage scheme - Arrived at via an email:

Based on the announced car scrappage scheme of £2000 for cars more than 10 years old, WhatGreenCar estimates that the average carbon benefit would be over 50 gCO2/km per car. Assuming average mileage of 15,000 km per year, the carbon saving amounts to over 0.8 tonnes per year per car, or over 4 tonnes per car over the 5-year period during which time the scrapped car may have been used if the scheme had not existed (assuming older cars are scrapped 5 years earlier than would normally be the case).

[These calculations include an assessment of vehicle use, upstream fuel emissions AND vehicle manufacture. The modelling assumes: average tailpipe CO2 emissions in 1999 of 185 g/km; average tailpipe CO2 emissions in 2009 of 154 g/km; upstream fuel CO2 emissions 26-36 g/km depending on fuel type and car age; car manufacture CO2 emissions 21-31 g/km depending on fuel type and car age; 10 year age deterioration factor 10% for greenhouse gases; real world driving factor 15%; diesel penetration 1999 of 17%; diesel penetration 2009 of 44%; average car mileage 15,000 km].

Given that these figures suggest that the planned scheme will have a small, but measurable, environmental benefit, added to the crucial support for jobs in the auto industry (the scheme's main aim), WhatGreenCar broadly supports the car scrappage scheme. That said, it is still our position that an opportunity to further reduce emissions by setting limits on the CO2 emissions of new cars purchased through the scheme has been missed

Whoa! Science. At last a few numbers. And... it looks like they may be positive. However, I'd say this is an ongoing thread still.

Guardian - Budget 2009: Alistair Darling has just thrown away £300m

FT - Electric car subsidies do not serve green goals

Gaurdian - NEW - Hello, is that Peter Mandelson? Want to buy an old motor?

He keeps asking. Seems a shame not to reply.

Newsnight's Ethical Man is really pleased with this one.

Test driving an electric car in Motor City

Not being a journalist I am not sure what his personal views on how good it is has to do with much, but it is the blog complement so OK.

I fear that, as one of not very many to devote a fair whack of time to reviewing as requested, I still cannot find it easy to agree that the series is really beginning to get to grips with the issues.

For the investment (ROI or enviROI), I found it again factually sparse and lacking in persuasive content. The Volt is an embarrassment (Post 3 is very pertinent) ,though I do wonder why many posters seem more concerned as to whether it was first.

Well, let's see if this week we can discover what the US can teach us (other than how to use 2 x more energy, which I'd rather we didn't), as this might well yet validate the pleasure of finding what was promised for the series gets delivered.

Sadly, the thoughts of a few of a few in a near empty hall - or bartend...er... Mayor Steve (a real people-s champion if he can be swayed to sign up to a commitment on no more than being told to on camera by a UK reporter) - have to be viewed as potentially interesting, but hardly representative. And speaking of context, as well as a matter of interest, if 911 mayors (may now be 935 - http://www.usmayors.org/ )in the US have signed up to cuts, what might the total number be? And what?s the breakdown? I just ask because if Boris signed up London he'd probably be OK. As to a pol with a constituency in the boonies with one bus a day to work... not so sure.

I am also not clear what is meant by 'low carbon travel'. The distance alluded to when this was first raised is surely irrelevant in the context it was mentioned. Yes, the size of the country and population has meant more inevitably is used just shunting a few hundred million folk hundreds of miles when we deal in scores here. The more important issue is efficiency. I see no need for a 6 litre car there to get from A 2 B in comfort and safety any more than I do here. Hence I was as unimpressed with Gov. Arnie's Hummer as Sir Stuart Rose's 7 Series Hydrogen effort, as they made potentially good points in a totally compromised way.

As to whether democratic societies are capable of making short term sacrifices, I would certainly like to think so. But as been pointed out by such as President Obama and PM Brown, we are now in the era of world economies. I guess we should be grateful then that India is a democracy, but there is a small concern as to what the Chinese government may decide for its people when the Shanghai Nano is rolled out. That one will be crossed when arrived at.. all very Prisoner's Dilemma. But if North Korea can be persuaded to stop the whole nuke thing by us getting rid of ours, then anything is possible. And in any case this is, should be, about the technologies and policies of reduction and efficiency domestically.

I also get a bit eyebrow cranky on anything with the word 'carbon' and any term meaning money or trading being bolted together. So nice in theory, so hard to grasp in practice without thinking that such as business class travel will soon only be for politicians, City traders... and journalists that get invited aboard to take us for a ride.

Getting all global, with a touch of egalitarianism thrown in, in our new world order I wonder if there might not end up being some 'them' and 'us' still to avoid further 'issues' cropping up.

Because if I am to be bestowed with an allowance of one log to heat the home, a trip to Tescos to feed the family and an annual short haul to Majorca on Ryan Air, which I can trade with Madonna on weekly kid shopping expeditions, or BBC eco-reporters for visits to Antarctica to see the damage caused by folk going to Antarctica, it seems only fair that every soul on the planet gets the same, from Kalahari bushpersons to Mekong fisherfolk.

And while the latter might not be able to afford the trips or goodies, they would be theirs to trade. Which rather leads me to wonder if the whole thing might not get a lot worse as a consequence of a bunch of rich, or expenses-driven individuals and/or businesses simply buying what they want, only now with a guilt-free sticker. And there are a lot of rich folk and ratings-thirsty journos with places to go and people to see, who I am sure our poorer cousins will be happy to trade with for cash to buy Chinese Nanos. Expectation of better things is part of the economy-growing cycle.

Nothing less than saving the world for climate change? If all $1B gets ?us? is the Chevy Volt as featured, I?d say that the US might be stretched to show us anything worth a darn for now. But nice that it all comes to complement the coincidental PR assault on the airwaves and columns over here, right now, from the likes of trusted pols such as Mandelson, Brown and now Hoon (see Richard Black?s latest post). Sadly not getting as easy a ride from many quarters (even... especially eco ones) that seem inconveniently now able to raise some concerns, from where the battery raw materials are to come from to how the 'leccy gets generated and then delivered. I merely wonder if trying to get our cross-pond cousins into 2 litre diesels delivering 60mpg might not be a more productive effort for now, whilst other, cleaner, higher enviROI options are honed before leaping to a green crowd pleaser. Hence I doubt that Mr. Clarkson, and his audience, are too concerned yet. But at least they might know that you use a lot more fuel at 100mph vs. 60mph, and how much it costs planet and licence fee to replace a piece of kit not fixed down properly in seeking to get a bit of nifty TV footage more than any other consideration.

So, again, to paraphrase what the nice lady said at one point, 'what's all this supposed to prove??'

Guardian - NEW - Tesla's Elon Musk: the democratisation of electric cars is speeding up - 'The automotive industry has reached a clear consensus that the future is electric and is offering consumers more affordable and effective vehicles' - has it, indeed.

I would love one of these cars. It certainly was raised in comparison, very positively, if not by the investigative reporter, after a paean to the joys of the $1B (and counting) Chevy Volt, by Newsnight's Ethical Man.

But just as I worry what Gordon & Alistair might do to spoil my growing affection for my £3500 (meeting my definition of affordable, if not some others better placed, perhaps), '02 LPG Volvo, there is a rather worrying question mark on the future of the 'fuel', especially its cost.

But , it's nice to know the automotive industry has reached a clear consensus that the future is electric and is offering consumers more affordable and effective vehicles... at least for the auto industry, I guess.

And while advertorials are not unheard of in the media - today the BBC was helping a lady sell tacky flog spy stuff for about 5 minutes - I tend to respond better to the message, and the medium carrying it, if the information is objective, allowing me to make up my own mind. A bit like the DamGreen 'affair', this is not proving easy, as most 'official' info is carried by a rather suspect establishment, from Hoonian press releases on the BBC website to, well, many from the rest of a certain section of the MSM that knows what's good for us.

Leaving the much bogey-personed blogosphere to offer alternative views, from such rampant oil-pocket entities as Uni Engineering Professors and the Green Party.

So while I am grateful to affluent early adopters, I am also hoping they got their dosh by being challenging of what they are told too, and are making their decisions based on the future of all our kids, and not just what some in the right circles tell them will look good.

ps: I think most credible boffins have stopped using the warming thing, opting for the more accurate, as far as it goes, climate change, with even this now evolving, as planetary things tend to do.

pps: 'a fleet of electric Smart microcars for zero-emission urban commuting' - now, how does that 'zero' get arrived at?

The Ecologist - NEW - Can electric vehicles overtake competing green car technologies? -

The Gaurdian - NEW - The flaws in the electric car scheme

The Gaurdian - NEW - Where's the chemistry in electric cars? - I thought it was going to be about science!

The Gaurdian - NEW - Watt an idea

The THREE E's, again?

An interesting piece that at first blush is more concerned with my 'Two E' dilemma, namely economics 'vs.' environment.

However, a third is worked in, namely electricity. With a hue of greencloaking around too, perhaps.

Don’t let’s fall for all these ‘green’ credentials

What is interesting is how little is devoted to enviROI still. Even by the author. I have lost count of the number of puff pieces with some mic-toting moppet gushing that these things do not create emissions.

Personally I think there is great merit in pursuing electricity as a power option for vehicles. But it has to be done in concert with a realisation, and acceptance that until the method of electricity generation is developed in complement, they can hardly be deemed to be 'green'. 'Greener', perhaps, at least in some aspects, such as localised pollution (though it still ends up in the air elsewhere), hence the value even now in certain applications. Just... so long it is not just to tick a box somewhere that has little bearing on my kids' futures and more on meeting targets, propping up constituency votes, delivering to lobbyists or scoring a bonus.

Plus, as the comments show, there is also this rather unseemly, and uncritical rush to support anything that slaps a green sticker on it. I watch the BBC report on this, and came away thinking it a tad churlish to turn them down.

Now I read the fuller facts, and that there are already niche players well entrenched to tackle such markets as can be gained, there is different picture emerging. Especially to me as a taxpayer, and environmentally-concerned one at that.